Forums


Go Back   The TrekEarth Forums >

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools

Great stego 2008-01-07 15:04

Hi John,

Many of us try to variate on their subjects so we don't get boring. You don't need such a thing - your compos and the domain of light is so great and inspired that I no one would get bored if you posted one of this bucolic morning or late afternoon views of a tranquil stream with bordering trees traversing a green field. I feel urge to visit Flanders to disentangle if there is something magic about the landscape that makes the painters and photographers look so inspired or it is something else (certainly it is, of course). :-)

I wonder if this photo won't cause a bit of polemic because of the OE on the BG. I actually like it, it is part of its charm and I find it much natural, but I notice that some of our colleagues sometimes are a bit excessive * about OE and they point their fingers as soon as they see a small shining white area.

Regards, Josι.

* I changed this phrase after reading the angry comment of delic - I didn't and I don't mean to be offensive, even when I used the immoderate and bad tasted 'almost fundamentalist' instead of 'bit excessive'.

  #1  
Old 01-07-2008, 08:59 PM
delic's Avatar
delic delic is offline
TE Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 91
Default To stego: fundamentalism

Jose,
First off, we are not colleagues. Secondly, if there is any fundamentalism to speak of, it is sugarcoating every shot even if it has a technical and/or compositional problem. Mind your own business, and don't respond to critiques that neither concern you, nor you understand fully.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-07-2008, 11:49 PM
stego's Avatar
stego stego is offline
TE Expert
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,495
Default Re: fundamentalism

Hakan,

I confess that my first reaction was replying with the angry tone that I notice in your comment. I'll try not doing it - flamed discussions aren't not that bad, but only as long as the heat is caused only by the healthy debate of ideas and no one feels offended. I'll ignore your insults, which I prefer to believe that were written only because you mistakenly felt insulted by my words.

I didn't mean to hurt anyone's feelings, even less yours. I was a bit surprised to notice the OE and I did a quick look at the critics to see if anyone had pointed it, but I didn't notice yours. That's why I wrote "I wonder if this photo won't cause a bit of polemic because of the OE on the BG". My critics and writings in general may be sugar coated, but believe me that I would comment your critic frontally if I had noticed it. While I try that my critics go a bit farther than just a meaningless praise, I don't pretend that they are highly objective and unbiased (if there is truly such a thing in a critique of a photo). I mentioned the overreaction of some of TE members to OE because it is something that I feel sometimes.

I recognise that the using the adjective 'fundamentalist' was inappropriate, and bad tasted, but note that English is not my native language and I am not so good at it. I have already modified the text of my critique.

As for not being colleagues, I guess you are right. If you associate any level of intimacy with the word 'colleague', you can rest tranquil that I don't want to be intimate of someone who doesn't want to.

As minding my own business, I am sorry to disappoint you, but making whatever critiques I want of any post of TE is an important part of 'TE business'. It's my prerogative writing sugar coated critiques and disagreeing with others' opinions, even if they consider themselves superior and more knowledgeable than me.

I have already explained that I wasn't responding to your critique, but again, I had every right to do it, at least in TE.

As for not understand fully what is being discussed, maybe you are right, maybe not. One of things that life taught me is that more often than not, wisdom comes together with modesty and arrogance together with less knowledge. One notice that everyday in TE.

Regards,
Josι

PS: I am sorry, John, for having this discussion associated with a post of yours.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-08-2008, 07:09 AM
delic's Avatar
delic delic is offline
TE Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 91
Default Re: fundamentalism

Jose,

No insult taken and none was intended on my part. I did find your original words arrogant and inappropriate, and perhaps overreacted myself when responding.

The highlight overexposure in this picture pertains to the tree line on the left, the sheep and part of the grass. There is nothing wrong with the sky contrary to what you thought I implied. This is a common challenge in high-contrast scenes, and one should try to keep highlight detail as much as possible even if that means losing shadow detail. Such an approach often yields more pleasing results for the eye. Moreover, one can open up shadows in post-processing (PP) but once highlights are gone, they are gone. That's why I suggested to underexpose and work on the image in PP, which you seem to have missed. Having said all these, I think overexposure is minor, and in the end some people might even like it. The real problem I find with this picture is composition. If one shoots with 16 mm, there has to be a strong foreground element, and grass does not qualify as one (well, not to me at least). The sheep are supposed to be an important part of the composition but they seem miles away and have minimal impact due to their tiny size.

Colleague means a person with whom one is associated in a profession or occupation. It has nothing to do friendship, or intimacy as you put it.

I'm not going to get into "your rights in TE." But you have to practice what you preach about modesty and arrogance when you exercise your rights.

Cheers!

Hakan
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-08-2008, 11:33 PM
stego's Avatar
stego stego is offline
TE Expert
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,495
Default Re: incident closed :-)

Merhaba Hakan,

As far as I can understand, "all ended well" with this "incident", and I am glad for it.

I understand your point about the flaws, or just things less good, in John's photo. I see no problem for the absence of a strong fg element - I agree that sometimes (often?) that can be a problem, but since the visual arrangement pleases me, I don't feel that something is missing. I think that the thing least well in the photo is... the OE on the areas that you point (! 8-). I should have mentioned that in my critique and made clear that I saw no problem in the sky. However, I tend to believe that we are in the presence of one of those cases where is nearly impossible to have good details both in the brightest areas and in the darkest ones, at least without using any sort of HDR or exposure blending. Although I agree that generally is wiser to under-expose because it's easier to correct UE than OE, my guess is that under exposing more would result in a major loss of detail and the presence of noise in the most "important part" of the photo (the shadow stream), so perhaps John did the wisest choice.

Risking to resemble too fussy, let me point you that your definition of "colleague" basically coincides with mine (which is the connotation of the literal translation of the word to Portuguese [colega]). Actually, being too strict, it refers only to members of the same profession or co-worker of the same organisation. I generally use "colleague" to refer to TE members because in the end all of us share two amateur occupations: photography and participating in TE. It's not correct strictly speaking, but I don't know of any more suitable word (fellow? peer?).

Cheers, Josι.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-10-2008, 08:47 PM
delic's Avatar
delic delic is offline
TE Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 91
Default Re: incident closed :-)

Dear Jose,

Well, our mutual bickering aside, this did turn out to be quite a useful exchange, don't you think? I wish there was such extensive discussion on each image. We have to thank John for the opportunity.

I agree with your assessment on the image. There is no unique answer to the high-contrast problem. I would probably spot-meter the brightest grassy area, bracket by opening up by 0.5-1-1.5 stops and choose the best. Then I would brighten the underexposed parts in post-processing. You are right that this may enhance the noise, but I wouldn't worry about it with a camera like 5D.

Colleague, fellow, peer? Why not just use the word "friend" ;-)?

Best wishes,

Hakan
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-11-2008, 09:01 PM
stego's Avatar
stego stego is offline
TE Expert
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,495
Default Re: incident closed :-)

Hi Hakan, my frined,

On my first reply to you I mentioned one of my 'intuitive indicators' of the the level of wisdom of persons I don't know. It failed with your first message, but it surely was right on the second. You passed to the highest level in my consideration with the last message :-) - it's my believe that most of the times, a remarkable level of mutual 'understanding', open mind and wisdom is needed to avoid that a discussion that started the way ours did, doesn't end with a nasty breakup, even when they happen with people we thought we knew well before and/or had an appreciable level of intimacy/friendship. I couldn't agree more with the teacher of the Project Management course where I spent these last 3 days: only people that go along very well can get involved in heated discussions and that not affecting their good relations.

Turning to John's photo again, you point a clever way that probably would have given better results. Like you point, the noise in the shadows could be a problem in a lower end camera, but considering that is a 5D(!)...

Best Reagards, Josι.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:03 PM.



Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.
explore TREKEARTH