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  #1  
Old 10-05-2008, 05:24 PM
JoeyNO's Avatar
JoeyNO JoeyNO is offline
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Default Country? Needs adjustments?

I have added a few pictures from Greenland, and I seriously believe Greenland that not should be under Denmark. Its two "seperate" contries with extremely different properties that it doesnt belong together, even thought Greenland politicly are under Denmark.
Greenland works in these days for autonomy, but not detachment from denmark.

And by the way, on my profile the "photographed countries" does not tag Greenland even though ive added pictures from it.
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  #2  
Old 10-05-2008, 08:21 PM
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Default Re: Country? Needs adjustments?

I totally agree with you. The same goes for the Faroe Islands which according to the CIA fact book have this status:

Part of the Kingdom of Denmark; self-governing overseas administrative division of Denmark since 1948

(As compared to i.e. Australia which is listed like this in the CIA fact book: Independence: 1 January 1901 (federation of UK colonies)

And another point is that it looks strange to see photos from Greenland and the Faroe Islands popping up under Denmark.
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  #3  
Old 10-05-2008, 11:43 PM
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Default Re: Country? Needs adjustments?

I fear that you raised a controversial issue, perhaps no so much because of the "detachment" of Greenland from Denmark, but much more with other regions that claim to be independent, which isn't even the case of Greenland.

I agree with jrj that it is strange that Greenland and Faroe Islands pop up in Denmark, but even stranger is that French Polynesia and Martinique pops up in Europe (France), or Bermuda and many other overseas British colonies in UK. Perhaps not much Danes, French, Britons and Dutch see much problem in "giving autonomy" to their colonies in the context of TE, but what about the myriad of wannabe independent countries of Ex-USSR, former Yugoslavia, Tibet(!), Kashmir, Kurdistan and so on?

Maybe it's wiser to keep a profile as low as possible and stick to what is more commonly accepted by the "International Community", whatever such thing is. Changing the current logic of the geographical organisation of TE could be like opening Pandora's box.

I remember that more than once there were polemics between Greeks and Macedonians FYR because Greece doesn't accept that there is a country with the same name of a Greek province. I don't know details, but I suspect that they believe they have reasons to fear that it means that Macedonia FYR has plans to claim that the Greek province with the same name is their territory. More than one Greek that I "knew" and I couldn't imagine being provocative, involved in discussions and suffered a "penalty" in the form of not being able to post critiques and I think that at least a member from Macedonia FYR was banned.

Those kind of things flame even usually calm people very easily. Going a bit off topic, I still remember that the first mail bomb I received (in 1994 or 95) was from an Indonesian guy insulting me just because I had written something relatively mild about Indonesia doing wrong in occupying East Timor, which was still officially a Portuguese colony. Unluckily for him, he was a student of Carnegie Mellon University (US) and one of the other recipients of his mail bomb was an ex-college colleague of mine who was also in CMU doing his PhD, so in less than a day the bomber had his Internet access blocked in CMU. For those of you who had never seen the therm "mail bomb", it is a huge flooding of a mailbox or a server with hundreds of messages in a short time. In those heroic times of 1994, when the mail server we were using in the place where I worked then was less powerful than my kid's Gameboy and the connections was even worse than TE in its worst days, receiving some thousand of emails was quite a burden and it took me at least one hour to clear my mailbox. If I received such a mail bomb today I would just think to myself "Boy, today the spam has hit even harder than usual". :D

Take care,
Josι
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  #4  
Old 10-06-2008, 01:13 AM
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Default Re: Suggestion

I ended up forgetting my suggestion, which is basically separating continents from countries. Allowing pairs of country/state to be associated with continents would do the trick, although that most certainly involve much coding work because TE structure seems to lie strongly in the current rigid hierarchy of "Continent / Country / Region / State, etc.". In the list that now shows the countries that belong to a continent, besides the countries which have most of their territory in that continent, it would appear also the territories that belong to countries of other continent. Example: UK would appear in Europe as a country but when would go to Central America, besides the independent countries, it would also show UK/Bermuda, UK/Cayman Islands, etc.

Not that I consider it a matter that important, but actually I think that some aspects of the current hierarchy don't make much sense:

The region seems useless in most cases and is prone to confusion because it tends to be vague most of the times for the "states" in the limits. Too often I am not sure if "state" X is in the North or in the Centre in my own country and when there are not only South, North and Central, but also East and West things get even more complicated - Bretagne isn't the Northenmost region of France, but it is in the North, but its gallery is in the West. I would supress the notion of "region" and create another level below the actual "cities".

Another annoying thing is that while the list of regions is quite short, many states have a huge amount of "cities" that complicates the navigation.

It makes more sense to me something like:

Level 1- Continent. The word continent isn't so appropriate if the actual structure is kept. There isn't any continent named Middle East, if Central America is a continent, then is arguable that the Caribbean is part of it, at least all of it, since the Southernmost islands are closer to South America. Incidentally, even in the context of the current structure, Middle East doesn't make sense to me, because as far as I know all the countries that are in that part of TE are in Asia while Egypt is in Africa.

Level 2- Country.

Level 3- State. In many countries this levels actually corresponds to provinces, autonomous regions or any kind of major administrative division. Like I mentioned before, beside belonging to a country, a state belongs to a continent, which can in some cases be different from that of the country.

Level 4- Region. I believe that most countries of a certain territorial dimension will have at least two levels of administrative divisions, the 4th level corresponds to the 2nd level of administrative divisions.

Level 5- Sub-region. I would drop the word city because in many occasions it doesn't make sense calling city to a village or just a place, or putting a view of the countryside in the same gallery of an urban view that was shot tens of miles away. This change of the concept of the 4th and 5th level could allow that real larger cities would go to level 4 and that the urban districts would go to level 5. Currently the galleries of most larger cities are quite messy because while some create a "city" to put a major neighbourhood, which many times can correspond to an actual administrative division, others put their photos of places that are located in those "cities" in the major "city".
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  #5  
Old 10-06-2008, 07:58 AM
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Default Re: Country? Needs adjustments?

I'm absolutely agree with jrj. Moreover currently Grenland is not marked on the user photographed countries map although user really took picture in Greenland (the same for Western Sahara), it's not convenient.
As for "but what about the myriad of wannabe independent countries of Ex-USSR, former Yugoslavia, Tibet(!), Kashmir, Kurdistan and so on?" the only what can be suggested is to use english-spoken wikipedia's list of countries (excluding Akrotiry and Dhelkelia) as the most common sence of theme. According to the list:
- Abkhazia and Southern Ossetia (and, may be, Transnistria and Nagornyi Karabakh too) should be decided as independent territories according to the actual circumstances. Possibly, the same condition for Somaliland as for de-facto independent state.
- The same for Kosovo and Northern Cyprus (why not - if Taiwan is listed as "country" by TE)
- Tibet, Kashmir and Kurdistan is not separate countries by any way (at least they are do not have self governments and nobody have decided them as "states".
Becides I guess the regions for Serbia and Bosnia have to be specified more accurately. It is not correct the state has the two or three regions only (while, for instance, Andorra and Monaco have more ones).
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  #6  
Old 10-06-2008, 08:46 AM
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Default Re: Country? Needs adjustments?

"As for "but what about the myriad of wannabe independent countries of Ex-USSR, former Yugoslavia..."

Wannabe independet?
I'm insulted by this sentence. Maybe just my english is not that good, but how can you use term wannabe independent
end than put behind ex-ussr and former Yugoslavia?

This countries ARE INDEPENDET and they are independent for several years. So called "wannabe independet" Slovenia from former Yugoslavia has been independent now for 17 years! and recognized as such in the world. And also here in TE. You cannot put this in the same sentence with Tibet, Kashmir or Kurdistan. This is really really disrespectful. Maybe you should visit these "wannabe independent" countries to realise what nonsense you just wrote.

I do appologize for harsh reply but your ignorance is no exuse for not knowing hystorical facts!
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  #7  
Old 10-06-2008, 12:43 PM
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Default Re: Country? Needs adjustments?

Yes, it can be strange, like it is strange to see e.g. pictures of a tropical island destination in 'Netherlands' or 'France', but the criterium is clear: the list of countries should list the countries, i.e. those parts of the world that are self-governing and are accepted by (most of) the rest of the world as being that.

Let's not start a discussion on which parts of which country some people might wish to see independent. There is no end to that and it would just create a lot of confusion...not to mention an infinity of highly emotional discussions for and against.

Benny
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  #8  
Old 10-06-2008, 01:14 PM
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Default Re: Country? Needs adjustments?

I beleive stego have ment the non-recognized but de-facto independent countries like Abkhazia, Karabakh and Kosovo. There are not questions regarding Slovenia.
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  #9  
Old 10-06-2008, 01:20 PM
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Default Re: Country? Needs adjustments?

In any case it's fully incorrect: to post the picture from Bonaire and to see France in the list of user pictured countries and on the map on the next day. The problem can't be resolved with existing pictures attributing scheme.
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  #10  
Old 10-06-2008, 01:25 PM
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Default Re: (to jorgi)

Hi Jeri,

I didn't want to hurt anyone's feelings. As a matter of fact, all my talk was to stress that discussing independence of countries or regions is a very sensitive issue that easily flames people. I hope you don't get offended with this, but I think that your "loud" reply proved it very well.

I didn't make any statement about the rightfulness and historical reasons for the independence of any country or region, either recognised or not, effective or not. I didn't even want to put everything in the "same bag". When I mentioned former Yugoslavia I wasn't thinking about Slovenia, but as far as I know, Kosovo isn't the only issue on that part of the world (I hope I am wrong). For a moment I feared that "wannabe" could be clearly offensive. I always thought that it could be "read" literally, that is, "one who wants to be something". I went see http://www.thefreedictionary.com/wannabe and it confirms that I am right. In my view Slovenia isn't a wannabe country, but I guess it was until 17 years ago.

I guess the only "wannabe countries" that I visited were some Spanish regions, namely Catalonia. And I would love to visit Slovenia... But also Tibet, Kashmir and Kurdistan, although it's clear that a visit to your beautiful country sounds a lot more feasible than the others. :-)

I often think that I am not capacitated to understand fully the issues related with independence. One of the reasons is my habit of trying hard to see things from more than one perspective (I know very little "all white" or "all black" things, reality is colourful and even in B&W photography, the wealth of grey tones is as important as the pure blacks and pure whites). Another reason is the fact of having been born and living in a country that has virtually no ethnic differences (at least until recently immigration got relevant) and has exactly the same frontiers since the 13th century (except for an area of 750 sq.Km disputed with Spain since 200 years ago). I believe that is an almost unique occurrence, at least in continental countries outside America.

Regards, Josι.
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