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  #71  
Old 12-14-2007, 01:33 AM
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Brian Brian is offline
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Default Re: Furachan

Yea man there was a mass exodus of good street shooters and pj types over to Photoholik.com. It's a beta site where one can post projects and are able to tell a better story in sequence than on here, TE. I think it's a great idea actually, and am glad there is a site like this out there. Thing is, it might be invite only at the moment. Or at least it seems that way.
It is a real loss though losing many a great photographers here. I'm looking forward though to some new talent here on TE. Just gotta keep your eyes open.
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  #72  
Old 12-14-2007, 03:56 AM
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mataHd mataHd is offline
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Default Re: Furachan

Well the quality of the pictures is still there. I think everyone does the best he can and everyone is at a different stage of the learning process. It takes courage to post a picture and i think people are very respectfull of newcomers here so it gives a chance to the beginners. Thats a good thing....we all share the same passion and thats the reason we are here. This site has help me improve a lot!
I personally noticed others leaving as well, it is sad as we get to enjoy some of there work. Anyway it's the kind of thing that is bound to happen since the site is becoming bigger and bigger.

I personally turned the points off. I just enjoy taking pictures and for me to have people look at what i do is enough, even if its just a hundred hits or so per photo. I dont think art is something that needs to be competitive.

:-)
Pierre
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  #73  
Old 12-14-2007, 06:23 AM
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Davids Davids is offline
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Default art

Piere,

You're right about the art part.
It is in the nature of us to look for recognition :)

TE is growing? I'm not so sure. The number of members joining dropped in 6 month from it's record of 52 per day to an average of 34 now. The amount of active members also dropped, the effect of members leaving is not so dramatic. Don't be fooled by the number of members. I'd rather say TE is changing. The best we can wish is that new members become active :)
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  #74  
Old 12-19-2007, 01:54 AM
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bombilla bombilla is offline
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Posts: 618
Default Re: Furachan

Man, all of a sudden what strikes me as a real bummer about this is not just the loss of Francis's gallery -- which, of course, we all miss -- but the loss of all our comments on his photos. I suppose Francis has the originals of all the images he posted. Maybe he even has copies of all the commentary he wrote about his own postings. But all the comments we made about his work are lost in the ether. Man, I put a lot of work into some of those critiques . . . . Poof. Gone.
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  #75  
Old 02-13-2008, 02:44 PM
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stephtbest stephtbest is offline
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Default Re: Furachan

Yes. Big loss for TE. Photoholik seem to be open. but this is a strange thing to post a portfolio to be a member
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  #76  
Old 02-14-2008, 10:54 PM
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rushfan2112 rushfan2112 is offline
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Posts: 460
Default The "other site"........

The thing is, it doesn't have to be TE "or" Photoholik. We can be members of both - it's a free world. Some TE members are members of Photoholik and that was my intention - as I have no desire to leave TE, I like the people and the photos too much.

However, the facility to create your own, personal projects and post them (with or without) constructive opinions and suggestions seems like a great idea and I wish TE would take it on-board and offer it to us.

As it happens, I actually applied for membership of Photoholik a few days ago. I sent a selection of 5 recent images - some taken with my M6 using B&W film and others taken with my D300. All of the photos are posted on my gallery here and got a reasonable reception from TE. To be fair, they didn't constitute a project - but they were a representative sample of my images / abilities.

Two days later, I got a curt little response which said - and I quote:

"Hello, we thank you for the interest shown in Photoholik.
However, with regard to the portfolio you submitted, we think your work does not quite comply with the spirit or the quality expected for the site."

Maybe it caught me a bit off-guard but whilst I accept that the shots weren't a "project" I'm struggling to see their issues regarding "quality". Incidentally, am not expecting anyone to support my view or fishing for points, by the way - I'm just reporting the facts.

After I told them what I thought of their memo, I got a reply which said that they said:

"We are 6 admins, and we vote for new inscriptions :
sometimes we agree, sometimes we have different opinions, and it's
often subjective, and it's not always about quality... We are also
looking for other options, like a 2 months test, more uploads... but
it's not done yet."

Read into that what you will. For me, the joining criteria is way too subjective and I'm too damned old and cynical to be required to jump through hoops and go through initiation ceremonies and trial membership periods when it comes to a hobby (albeit one I'm passionate about).

Their site, their rules, their loss. However, I wish all the members at Photoholik the very best - Francis and numerous others are great photographers and helped me improve in my time here.

Oh well, maybe I'll just have to build my own website to post my little projects.

In the meantime, I'll be on TE less frequently than I have been to-date as I've started to notice a "sameness" in my images which I don't like. I'm my own hardest critic and I have no desire to bore you all with "more of the same" all the time.

Best wishes, Paul.
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  #77  
Old 02-15-2008, 10:10 AM
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pasternak pasternak is offline
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Default Re: The "other site"........

Yes, Paul, I can perfectly understand your frustration. After TE, where one (and I do not mean personally you, Paul, I am speaking in general terms here) who writes critiques regularly is being continuously praised _ONLY_ in order to get points back - coming across a real honest judgement may feel a bit like a cold shower. As everybody knows, on TE, when one stops writing critiques [or even doesn't stop critiquing, just turns points off in his profile...], almost all the "honest" praise to his work all of a sudden stops. I guess this lack of honest judgement, the main shortage of TE which is directly caused by the point system, was the reason behind the forming of Photoholik, an alternative site where the principles were supposed to be different. Of course, the only way to keep that site different is to limit (or completely halt) the admission of new members, and in this respect I perfectly understand their strict rules of admission.
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  #78  
Old 02-15-2008, 01:57 PM
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rushfan2112 rushfan2112 is offline
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Default Re: The "other site"........

Hi Alexander.

I agree with your comments for the most part. Personally, however, I'm not remotely interested in points and, as a consequence, I find myself between a rock and a hard place.

TE provides an option to post individual photos and, seemingly, so long as one critiques regularly and hands out points, one will receive some critiques in return (some might well be insightful and helpful) and a reciprocal number of points.

If, however, one wishes to develop new (or extend existing) photojournalistic abilities, TE is probably not the place to do it if the desired end result is a small "project" or story. Photoholik (Ph) does offer such an opportunity but they seem to only want "people like us".

I might be wrong but I see this is a very narrow and elitist goal which might, ultimately, limit their success by turning away more gifted (and I'm NOT referring to myself here either) photographers / photojournalists. Good luck to them.

Paul.
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  #79  
Old 02-15-2008, 07:04 PM
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Cormac Cormac is offline
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Default Re: The "other site"........

Hi Paul

Interesting to read your experience with Photoholik. Like a lot of people here I'm curious about what is happening on Photoholik, because there are a lot of former TE people over there. I think that one factor at work is that most of the people there idolize the Magnum photographers, and Photoholik is a kind of "mini-Magnum". A bunch of like minded photographers forming a group to further their development, as well as providing a place to display their work to the public (and maybe even provide a route to marketing their work). The key difference between Photoholik and TE is that Photoholik is closed, invitation only, and TE is open to everyone, regardless of their level. Which way is better? I don't know, but it's an interesting idea and I wish them sucess with it.

It's natural that people get tired of a group or an online site after a while, and want to try something different. Even if it's not better it can still benefit them just because change can re-energize a person, and get the creative juices flowing. If you stay anywhere long enough you start to get stale, just repeating yourself, and I think that is probably the biggest reason why they went to Photoholik.

One other interesting thing: after reading your message I went over and checked out the site, and I saw that Furachan (now going by the handle Kitano) is now saying that he regretted deleting his account and all his photos on TE. This just underlines your point about there being no reason you have to choose between TE and Photoholik (or any other site). You can participate on other sites while maintaining a presence here, and even if you are no longer active on TE you can still leave your photos here, as a legacy for others to enjoy and learn from. I hope nobody deletes their photos here because there is a lot of good work that would go down the drain (both photos and critiques).
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  #80  
Old 02-15-2008, 08:32 PM
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rushfan2112 rushfan2112 is offline
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Default Re: The "other site"........

Hi Alvin,

Great minds think alike.

When I was writing my last note, I wrote (and then deleted) that Ph is a bit like a mini-Magnum - those exact words. I deleted it because, in reality, Ph has an extremely long way to go before it can even be mentioned in the same breath as such a world-class and revered collection of artists. It is, as a new site, simply a collection of like-minded souls hoping to make a name for itself. Perhaps "aspiring Magnum" might be nearer the mark - in the same way as as I aspire to be Ansel Adams or Henri Cartier-Bresson ;o))

Before I applied to join, I took a very long and very hard look at the Ph site whilst it was in development. Although I have not done much street photography / photojournalism, I've recently acquired the taste for it and small rangefinders like the Leica M6 allow you to "blend in" more and become almost invisible. I thought I could learn there and contribute as I'm not a complete novice by any means.

That said, I also took a very long and hard look at my photography on TE and concluded that although I feel the later stuff is technically better, it isn't, necessarily, more original or engaging. For some reason, my work on here seems, to me, to be glorified record shots. Maybe I'm interpreting the site objectives too literally? Consequently, I believed that joining Ph (and remaining on TE) would be beneficial all round.

Francis is, as you say, using the moniker "Kitano" and is as good as ever. I saw his note and his "regrets". He's a good bloke.

Like all sites, there are good and not so good posting on Ph. So, I was extremely disappointed not just for having my application rejected but the off-hand way in which a poor message was delivered. If the site owners feel they can be so elitist and utterly dismissive of people with a genuine passion for the subject then they must feel very self-assured. But, like you say, good luck to them.

As I've already said, I had no intention of leaving TE. Even if I did, I wouldn't dream of deleting my photos as so many people have been extremely kind to view them and critique / comment on them.

Who knows where to go from here. I'm going for a few days away at Easter (my wife's taking me away for my birthday which is a few days later) so I'm hoping it's somewhere that will get me all fired-up and raring to go.

All the best.

Paul.
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