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  #11  
Old 10-20-2007, 05:45 PM
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kinginexile kinginexile is offline
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Default Re: Images 'slipping through the net'

Out of so many dedicated members, how hard is it to find enough moderators to easily delete pictures of flowers, animals with aboslutely no context in them. Besides, for those who think their "lily" (flower or pet) teaches about the world, TL and TN are also teaching about the world. We all learn and teach about the world, every minute of our lives. I mean, it's a silly argument, the TOS are quite clear. I think 3 moderators can take care of the 1 to 2000 images posted everyday. i will fill in, if Adam wants me too, and we could it as revolving moderating, one month each. Strictly for that purpose: TOS.
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  #12  
Old 10-20-2007, 06:06 PM
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bazal bazal is offline
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Default Re: Images 'slipping through the net'

Oh yes, indeed, I'm sure that a lot of members of TE's "moral police" would be more than happy to work to a STRICT RESPECT of the rules.

What a world! Not sure I want to learn much more about this one...
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  #13  
Old 10-20-2007, 06:22 PM
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kinginexile kinginexile is offline
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Default Re: Images 'slipping through the net'

why this attack, using such terms as "moral police". I am sorry but there is something I care deeply in general. It's fairness. the TOS have nothing to do with morales, and are there for everyone. I am quite aware that many are just happy with the site as it is, with no opinion but let go, whatever (the net is quite inducive of that). I respect that, but why denigrate those who think that with a little effort, we could fix little problems that have been vexating too many for too long. You are a great guy, Loic, I am sure, but let's have constructive comments, not just dismissing with a sleigh of hand.

I'd prefer we let all the pix in, BTW, including self-portraits, save porn and unallowed privacy invasion.
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  #14  
Old 10-20-2007, 06:34 PM
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Keitht Keitht is offline
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Default Re: Images 'slipping through the net'

It isn't a case of "moral police". All sites need moderation to ensure that whatever rules are applied are conformed to. That is true whether we are discussing abusive personal comments, foul language or images which fit or don't fit the site. Clearly defined guidelines would have to be set out for any additional mods, as I presume are set out for the existing ones.
The problem for any site when providing people with mod/admin rights is knowing how the individual will act when given that level of authority. Adam has rightly been extremely wary about accepting any offers of assistance, maybe because he has wanted to maintain total control, maybe for other reasons. Even offers to provide complete lists of regions for a country have been turned down. Don't get me wrong - that decision is absolutely his to make, but I do think the site must be a handful for one individual, or a very small team to manage. Remember that mods on most sites are volunteers and can only give limited amounts of time.
Submissions do seem to have plateaued at about 700 per day, but that still takes some checking.
Furthermore for moderation and deletion (of 'offending' images) to be a practical I think we need much more precise detail of what is and isn't acceptable on TE. I don't believe that the vast majority of people deliberately set out to post images which belong on other sites, but the 'rules' being split over a number of pages can be confusing.
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  #15  
Old 10-20-2007, 09:24 PM
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bazal bazal is offline
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Default Re: Images 'slipping through the net'

I totally agree on one fact: all site do need moderation. And it's especially true for a site which is related to photography. Why am I saying that? Just because I sincerely do not want to find around here pictures of deliberately violent acts, of pornography or even worse (I think it's not useful to get into more details).

But I think the use of authority should be limited to this kind of very serious abuses. What you are talking about for ages are problems that I have the weakness to think can be 90% solved by auto-moderation or pedagogy. What I mean here is that intervening ourselves and letting people know when we think they ignore or misinterprate the TOS is just very effective and has a much more positive impact on the content of the gallery than using this AUTHORITY you just speak about endlessly. I know it takes a bit more time and imagination to write this kind of critique than to click the report button, but don't you think it's much more respectuous for the people that have put a part of themselves in their contribution?

You know what, I tend to agree with more or less all of the TOS rules and I use to apply them as much as possible in my contributions. But if there's something I don't like, it's to be enclosed and looked after permanently. If TE was evolving to this kind of community, you can be sure that I would leave it immediately. It would probably not be a big loss for the site, but I would be very sad to do that.

Now I see that both of you react to this word "moral police" and I must confess that I used it for this purpose. But I realise it's possibly not completely the proper one. How could we call a clique of lambda citizens who volunteer to limit the freedom of the majority by arbitrary denunciation under the cover of the magic words: APPLYING THE RULES? I think you're right we cannot call that a police: it's a milice... I know it's too much, even not fair, don't get me wrong! But when I read those threads, these last weeks, I think that it's getting too much too!

Is the main gallery so completely invaded by out of purpose pictures that it becomes such a problem? Are you yourselves always compliant with the TOS? Hervι, be sincere (I promised myself I wouldn't say that, but sorry, it was too tempting! :o) ), haven't you ever posted a picture of a pet? And Keith, does any of your pictures teach us something about the world? If you can answer yes to these questions, then ok, I will shut off and never participate to all of these threads anymore!

I'm not against any changes and improvements of this website, I just think that what you're speaking of is not an improvement. It's just a way that will lead us to miss a lot of the most creative contributions we could have in the main gallery, because they're usually on the edge of the TOS rules...

But that's another story.

Have a good week-end (we all know that life's not limited to this site!).

Kind regards.

LB.
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  #16  
Old 10-21-2007, 05:31 AM
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Davids Davids is offline
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Default Lets all be friends and

Loic,

With all respect and nothing personal -that's a disclaimer in case you hadn't seen one before ;)
It's not right to start up this whole emotional mess with using the term 'moral police'.
I am a father, and I am a 'policeman' every now and then, if I don't....you know the rest (I hope)

Loic, the freedom to discuss this site, is also the freedom to reject some of this freedom, or to accept rules.

All this emotional stuff is keeping others away that might have something useful to say. Normal reactions seem to be getting ignored.

Why didn't you just say;
"I'm not against any changes and improvements of this website, I just think that what you're speaking of is not an improvement. It's just a way that will lead us to miss a lot of the most creative contributions we could have in the main gallery, because they're usually on the edge of the TOS rules..."
It's perfect! Moderation will lead to missing creative contributions.

Now, I know, it's not fair to say this only to you. Herve had a big love affair with Francis, and now with you.
In the end, you guys start to do kissy kissy to make up, YAK YAK YAK!

And as a result, stupidity took over and people start putting people in boxes; "you agree with him, so you also think like him in all other cases."

Anyway, lets all keep sharing and posting.
Gullifers travels haven't ended Yet :-)
My little girl is waking up, I have to go.
One last try;
Have a nice weekend, to ALL of you :)
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  #17  
Old 10-21-2007, 08:42 AM
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bazal bazal is offline
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Default Re: Lets all be friends and

Hi, David.

No worries, I don't see anything unfair or offending in your message! I don't agree with all you said, but nothing's wrong with that.

To be clear, I have a lot of respect for Hervι or Keith as persons (I don't really know them so it would be completely unfair and stupid not to respect them). The only point is that I wouldn't like to see the ideas they have developed in the forum for a few weeks applied to this site because I keep thinking they will result in a sterile application of stupid arbitrary authority. Now, I recognize that my words were a bit strong, but I am one of those guys who think that sometimes a caricature can balance another one.

But at he end, more than a question of goal (I'm sure their aim is just to improve TE) it's a problem of method. I know by experience that authority is much easyer than pedagogy (I had quite a few experiences in teaching, during the past), but the results you obtain with pedagogy is much more interesting, both at short and long term!

And do you really think it's right to loose creative contributions because of pictures deleted arbitrarilly? I think it would be a damage made to this site that will never been compensate by the "positive" effects that a strict application of the rules would bring.

But at the end, if there's something I won't discuss, it's the right they have (that everybody have, actually) to express their opinion here. But I keep my right to answer and say what I think.

Enjoy your week-end with your little daughter!
Cheers.

LB.
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  #18  
Old 10-21-2007, 12:32 PM
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Davids Davids is offline
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Default Re: Lets all be friends and

Your point is a good one Loic,
If we loose creative contributions, it would be a shame.
But have a look here.
-I keep promoting Latvia :)-. I see more creativity (both in themes and techniques) on TL than TE.
I really think (and we differ here I guess) that tightening some of rules, is in the end better for TE than ignoring some of them. I also think it doesn't matter what we think because it is Adam who decides after all.
I am a creative person, and I have to set myself limits (=rules =critique) all the time, but in the end, the harder the process, the better the result. Rules, limits, critiques are just a state of mind, maybe that's why it is easy for me to cut the crap and do what I like on TE. Maybe that's also why I like discussing on the forum, because life is never boring here.
Anyway, the little girl is desperately trying to get me to open Yahoo and show her the kittens. When she sais "Miauw!!!", my heart melts :-)
Thanks for your nice reaction,
good thing we respectfully disagree.

Now I will check who is world champion,
both in F1 and Rugby.

Miauw!!
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