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dom_inik_m 06-30-2005 11:33 PM

My list of fundamental questions...
...didn't require any immediate answers. I mainly stated it to help focusing on the general conception and production processes.
For merely thinking theoretically of a group of these, a group of those or much less money than one can think of won't lead us anywhere.
A full organization diagram has to be elaborated, including names, skills, availabilities (long terme/short term basis), salaries (if any), computer expertise, data processing opportunities, etc.

Wishing well and expecting the best is necessary, but I'm afraid it won't be enough. Far from it. And there are a lot of differences from posting a photo on TrekEarth, from time to time, and working to finalize a book, especially if it's a full-time occupation...
I don't want to sound too harsh, but I've been through a lot and hope to know a little bit of what I'm writing about.

Frankly, I don't see the point if the main goal of this project is to get part of what we can all find here, on line, printed on paper. So what would be the real and definite added value of such a project?
More to come, then... ;-)

PS I forgot to mention the potential legal issues, especially if portraits are to be included. So juridic advice is also required right from the early stages of conception...

oochappan 07-01-2005 01:26 AM

Re: Trekearth Book
A lot of reading to do, a lot of ideas and a lot of suggestions ....
time for action don't you think

- as the book should be a reflection of a year I like the limitation of photos made only in 2005, another selection will be done by members who offer on free base to participate with certain photos, here can also be a limitation of f.i. 3 or more that reflects really the spirit of TE by photo and note.

- as the book reflects a general image of all members I do not like the limitation of scoring at least 20 points, we should be integer enough to respect all members cause not everybody has the same possibilities or aim to post or to rate (imagine a poor man from the third world putting all his savings in a camera posting one photo on TE, he is happy to get his first two points while he has to look up to monster scores of a few that increases every year, not quite stimulating to start here, no ? so he can have his chance too with his 2 points, don't you think ?)

- as there is a lot of work and work involved we shouldn't use this as a nice excuse to do nothing at all .... most creations always start with a spontaneous dream, if we start analyzing too much mostly there stops the dream already.

but at the moment we are talking about nothing materialized yet, why not starting a Theme Photo Book 2005, as soon there are participants there we can all discus which one represents best TE in 2005 or even call upon some others for their cooperation as not everyone is so much involved in the forums and still have good posts in fact I wouldn't mind that rather new members with good post should be invited here too as a good community should take care for young starters, quite stimulating don't you think ?

Let's start somewhere and see how it evaluate ...... at least then we know what we are talking about .... a sea of time 9 months that will be gone before you know .....

mlopes 07-01-2005 02:38 AM

Re: Trekearth Book
Hi must agree 100% with you Henk

- I agree with the 2005 limitation for chosing photos, let's start today with the pictures of today... many good ones have been posted in the past... yes i know, but we do have to start somewhere!

- The photos must be "donated" by the members, the active the better without putting aside the new members that join everyday... doing this we are selecting photos from active members... a community job made by the community itself! To be honest i don't like the idea of work to those who don't work for me...

- Forget about the points... they dont mean anything

- Agree with the notes of the writer, I have my doubts about Jack's ideia that photos must be taken by a foreign photographer.... but can make sense though!

- I think Cesar is starting a planning... great

- I think we are reaching a title "Learning about the world thru photography"... great

- I think we are reaching the goal... more generalist book about the world... great

First step first... Let's make something manly for the community... then let's see how high we can go without falling. How many members are active and willing to join? 100? 200? if's there's the commitment of everybody buy at least one.... ;)

I'm loving this, let's get the dream going...


kikvel 07-01-2005 02:49 AM

just some figures to know what we have to deal with
# Phot.# Crit. #Memb. #Fav. # Trav. Maps
Africa 6.256 34.265 237 838 44 3
Antarctica 44 278 2 13 0 0
Asia 34.010 189.398 2.621 4.631 247 3
Central Amer. 2.396 8.391 75 215 16 0
Europe 81.824 429.189 7.416 8.954 395 14
Middle East 10.590 48.280 993 1.019 34 1
North America 27.426 116.355 4.106 2.622 137 2
Oceania 4.574 21.979 578 528 27 1
South America 7.389 34.792 610 1.145 84 1
174.509 882.927 16.638 19.965 984 25

joseelias 07-01-2005 02:52 AM

Use the Favorites for selecting
First I want to say that Dominique Monrocq has drawn a good line of questions to be answered and can be used as a starting point for the organization of the project. They should be considered.

Second, for selection the photos there’s a resource we’re forgetting and that Sofia Pereira reminded me of, the Favorites!
No matter the number of points a photo has, if it has something special, it is usually chosen by someone as a favorite. There are photos with 100 points without favorites and others with 5 as a favorite of someone. So I guess this is democratic.

It’s something steady from the beginning of the site until nowadays. It will cover a great number of members despite the popularity of each and all type of photos, from the street-shots to landscapes or portraits. And they are “only” 20.000 compared with the 170.000 of the whole site. Of course some filters may be done to try to sort out a limited number of other photos, which are very popular but weren’t chosen as favorites, who knows why! Just to try not to miss some very good photos for start.

And I disagree with leaving the photos before 2005 out. Most of the great photos of TE are from the previous years. I’ve been here since January 2003 and I know what I’m talking about…

Use the favorites and you’ll get the best selection of photos of every years.

kikvel 07-01-2005 02:53 AM

A simpler view
# Photos
Africa 6.256

Antarctica 44

Asia 34.010

Central America 2.396

Europe 81.824

Middle East 10.590

North America 27.426

Oceania 4.574

South America 7.389

Total: 174.509

kikvel 07-01-2005 02:55 AM

I agree with Jose
not just to discard older pictures,

favorites selection is one way to go ahead


joseelias 07-01-2005 02:57 AM

Generalist? Desagree completly
Finally, I’ll restate that I disagree completely with a generalist book focused only to be successful inside of TE. I wish a book, which can be put proudly in the stores. I’ll state the reasons for the last time:

- A generalist book, which tries to please every potential photography-book buyer, is prone to not please anybody. Someone who likes portraits will not buy the book just because it has 10 nice portraits among 300 photos. Those who like street-shots, who like industrial, or landscapes the same. You mix altogether Caviar with Chocolate Mousse and Rice and show me who will eat it…

I have a varied stile of photography and I know well that some members only critique me when I present castles, and others only when I present urban images and others, boats. That strict selection of interests is clearly seen here inside TE and people are free to look at all images! But if they had to pay to see photos that they don’t like than they would skip totally the ones they don’t like. That’s the same with a book.

- A big book is a huge investment of time, money and effort especially for people who don’t know much about this business. If it fails, too many photos will “burned” to be used again and the confidence of the members; as well publishers and eventually bookstores will be mined. Smaller editions will be easier to managed and allow a learning curve growth, for following projects.

- It makes no sense to show Portugal, or France or USA in two photos!!! Each country is much more than a portrait and a landscape! It makes sense to show “Urban Life” in the world. Maybe Africa will be left out, but hey! When it comes to “Traditional Ways of Living” the contrary will happen! You talk about sea, you’ll show Portugal but not Switzerland, but talk in mountain landscapes and the opposite will happen. These are simple examples. Better thought themes can be wider.

- Despite what people say, a generalist book will only show a fraction of the members, compared with a series of smaller thematic books in a medium term. The eager to present all, do all, include all is a mistake.

Thematic books will reduce the number of people involved in each project, yes, making it easier to manage too, but summing all the members at the end it will be a lot more people involved, shown and in a coherent way.

I'll be sincere. I don't like the generalist book idea a bit. It sounds too megalomaniac and incoherent in the final result. It will look more like exhibitionism of pretty photos than a true project of learning the world through photography. Something like "photography fast-food" than a "substantial meal".

dom_inik_m 07-01-2005 02:57 AM

Lost in the thread...
<a href="">conception and production process</a>
9 months from today will bring us to the end of march 2006 (not considering delivery delays and so on).
A little late for a book featuring photos covering the previous year, don't you think...?

rutti 07-01-2005 03:29 AM

Most photos are useless for printing
I don't know if you understand this but most photos on TE is worthless for printing. Someone mentioned something about giving people from the third world with crappy cameras a shot for the book. But you have to understand that a picture have to be of excellent TECHNICAL quality to be ok for printing in a book. It's not enough with a really good motive and POV and whatever if the digital file is 800X600 and 200kb big because it will not be possible to print that in a book. If we browse favourites on TE and finds 300 photos that we want to use in the book I bet that not more than 50 would actually be good enough in a technical way.

I'm a big supporter of the project but I sense that most of us, including me, don't know anything about publishing a book. We need professional people who can guide the project in order to aviod spending alot of time on something that might be worthless. We need organisation...

and who is Henk?!

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