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Great sayzey 2005-08-20 11:16

Hey Ishai, I read all the comments on this photo before I decide what to write about it. I picked it out of your gallery because I thought it was bound to incite some debates, and I wasnt wrong!

My opinion at first was that it was a bit too much, I dont find it disgusting, but I do find it a bit unsettling, and not because it is two men. I think perhaps if this photo was of a man sticking his toungue in a womans mouth it would cause more uproar because of political correctness and degridation of women, and possibly ome of the people who like this phot obecause of the freedom of sexuality it shows would not like it as much because of the differing sexes.
Anyway the more I thoguht about it the more I realised that this photo is simply a recording of something that happened, scenes like this would exist whether you were there to capture them or not, you are just conveying to us a moment at a festival, so we are learning of the types of things that happen at these festivals, people dress up, get a bit crazy and have fun.

I think that having fun is the underlying theme in this photo, not sex or sexuality, I think the guys are just having a laugh, and you were there to captuer that moment, and thats that, so I commend you on your effort and congratulate you for seeing past many peoples idea of taboo and daring to post a photo which crosses a lot of peoples boundries. You obviously knew that this would incite controversy among TE members and were prepared to deal with negative coments so I also applaud you for that.

Now onto the technicalities the only thing I coudl spot is that it is possibly a bit blurry, sharoening may sort this out?

Hope I havent wrote too much :P I just wanted to convey my opinion accurately. This is the first photo in a while that has made me think so much about what my opinion actually was, its not just a photo which we look at decide the colours are nice, it has underlying themes and it forces the viewer to think before commenting. Well done on this!

Old 08-20-2005, 08:26 PM
ishai ishai is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 272
Default To sayzey: Street Parade 2005 (#3)

Mark thank you too for being honest and daring to say your opinion
Im glad you dont think this is disgusting and im glad you took the time to write what you wrote.

I really in doubt with this web site sometimes.
Im posting a series (now 7 days in a row) and with each picture i have put underneath the note the following.

I hope you like the result (and if there are any comments, ide or even dislikes let me know, its all about learning and sharing)

The only thing I have learn from this picture is that it was shocking and not a lot of people mentioned the technical aspect of this picture, what if it was a guy shooting drugs in his veins, or a person sniffing heroine or a stubbing another ?

Would they all say wow, disgusting ,,,,Or just click and go,

I think people have an ide that this website is all about the sunrise and the sunsets.
The theme of trekearth is

learning more about the world through photography

Im with this web site for a while and Ive been uploading pictures regularly. There been all kind of pictures in my portfolio some abstract some nature but mostly people (my favorites).
In general, i think i improving and have a touch for it, like a lot of people I thing that sometimes a picture is good and sometime its not good.

I want to learn when it is not good, but the problem here is that when it is not shiny yellow or blue or attracts the attention people will not stop by.

The more I talk about this picture the more I realize that this website represent the community we all live in. And it looks like we are all followers.

In this web site I have not found out WHY some people score a 80 points for a shot that can be taken by a child with out even trying, some manipulate a shot that much that its even against the TOS and still get a way with a lot of points.

I think a lot of people are fed up with this and just uploading what is popular to score some points or to get recognition.

It would be much nicer if you could get a point for trying to do a certain thing like capturing two people kissing (men,women,or both) and not because it a NO NO because somebody think so.

I hope a lot of people will read this and will join and start to give comments like comment/ critics should be,

When you want to grow you have to make mistakes too
And last think Mark, what is better ?

To be the worst of the best or the best of the worst ?

I would choose the worst of the best

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Old 08-20-2005, 09:38 PM
sayzey sayzey is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 456
Default Re: To sayzey: Street Parade 2005 (#3)

Sometimes the technical aspects of a photo are ignored when the photo is powerful enough to incite a comment based upon the subject matter alone. I think sometimes that a lot of "critiques" are actually comments and so are posted wrong, I realise this, and I am sometimes guilty of it myself, but I always TRY to be critical of the technical aspects of a photo, i.e. how it coudl be improved, how I may have done it differently, or just how well a particular shot was captured using certani settings.

I think you are right about the fact that if a photo isnt a pictureseque scene they are not interested, I think I am guilty of overlooking a "bad" photo because I dont find it visually stimulating, and while I dont think theres anything wrong with that really, I do realise that I may have missed out on a good note, or a chance to help someone improve their photos by sharing what I know. But there are only 24 hours in a day and we cant critique all the photos on TE.

I have been with the site almost a year and feel my photos have improved no end from the things I have learnt and the encouragement also. I dont tent to look at photos of people unles they really leap out of the page at me (like your b+w of the girl with her fingers in her ears, my fav shot of yorus so far!) this isnt because I dont like people shots, but just because i dont tend to take them myself and feel that because I dont have that experience Im not really the best person to give tips on how to improve, or spot why a shot is particularly good.

I think that you are right when you say if you take a "poor" shot and want ot improve it people dont tend to stop by and give you tips on improving, thats why I think critiquing other people is so important, if you can do this people are likely to stop by and return the favour and that way poorer photos do get looked at. Which is good, because they jsut woudlnt get seen otherwise.

I know what you mean when some photos that arent as impressive as others get 100's of points, its all to do with community, if there is a popular member who critiques lots of other members it is only right that people should return the favour to them, but when it is obvious that the photo isnt that good maybe people should be more stringent with their point giving.

I like to assess the photo not only in terms of technical ability, but also how it looks, if there is a story behind it, what I am learning, the effort gone into the photo, and whatever else I can think of to justify a constructive critique, and if the phot odeserves the points I will give them gladly.

With regard to excessive photomanipulation I believe that there is a line which when crossed makes a photo inappropriate for this website. I am comfortable with a photo where the sky has been darkened to combat overexposure, or the contrast adjusted to bring out colours captured, or even the select cloning out of an element which coudl be distracting like a peice of rubbish in an otherwise flawless scene. Is this wrong? Perhaps but I think as long as the individual is comfortable that the message of their photo is unafected then it is ok.

I also dont mind the occassional overprocessed image as long as the individual hasnt "overdone" it to the point where it is just plain abstract.

I think your quote "When you want to grow you have to make mistakes too" is very true and could have been said by any of the great thinkers from history.

And as for your last question I agree with you, I chose to interpret the questoin in terms of something I understand: football

The best of the worst being the top of the league in a low division, you may score a lot of goals, but you are never challenged and ultimately will end up disappointed in your efforts.

To be the worst of th ebest means being bottom of the league in the Premier league, you are constantly under threat of relegation, you have to work for all your results and are constantly challenged, but when you do score a goal or win a match you know its because you deserved it and because of that victory is all the more sweet! : )

Again I want to thank you for getting me thinking, using my brain for a change and getting some opinions in black and white.

Im going to add you to my favorites because I feel I know you a bit better now, and I enjoy the fact that we have both put so much time into thinking and writing about something which we have both encountered, i.e. you behind the lens and me viewing the fuits of your labour.

Keep up the good work and I will be back to visit your gallery soon : )


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Old 08-20-2005, 10:37 PM
ishai ishai is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 272
Default Re: To sayzey: Street Parade 2005 (#3)

Hi Mark,
The whole story was NOT to do with you and not towards you we all do that .its difficult to be consequent and critique all people all photos and all notes(trekearth is growing very fast and a lot are coming and going).
I wrote a lot and hope a lot of people will be joining to this conversation and even start to improve (if this interesting for them).

I can only improve my self and some people DO not like to hear critic and not even interested to hear critic, they are here for the social effect and they just pas the time here.
There is a lot of social stuff going on in this site and a lot of friendships too
Perfect with me but let us stay in focus.
It a photo site not a something else

I like the example you used with the football is very right
I want to get better,And I will

Thanks (you are in my favorites too)

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Old 08-21-2005, 04:28 AM
sayzey sayzey is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 456
Default Re: To sayzey: Street Parade 2005 (#3)

Oh I know it wasnt all aimed at me, I was just addressing each point you made and letting you know my thoughts on each one of them, because I was in typehappy mood!

Thanks for adding me too : ) means a lot to have someone add you ot their favorites so I am honoured : )

And back to my football analogy, I think we all hope to be top of the league someday, but once your up their its a long way to fall, so is it better to have been up their and fall, or spend your life trying to get to the top but never reach it?
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Old 08-21-2005, 11:47 AM
ishai ishai is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 272
Default Re: To sayzey: Street Parade 2005 (#3)

You got my point 100 percent and your analogy is very good too.

The guys at the top need to upload a picture (no mater what, they get at least 18 points just from buddies saying oh, wow...., with the 2 pints smiley
Im sure Adam did not intended this when he made the point system , but I dont see / hear him giving them critics either about it.

Any way im glad im not at the top this way,

And if you read about the big boys ( I mean the big photographers) they did not have an easy life and their start was not easy either)

Have a good Sunday

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Old 11-12-2005, 01:45 AM
pitai pitai is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 144
Default Re: To sayzey: Street Parade 2005 (#3)

Dear Isha,

Maybe this a very late reply, but some say never is too late . I read some of your answers about the polemic kiss picture. And I just wanted to say that you dont have to take too seriously the TE.

About the score, the points do not represent the true value of a picture. You should know that by now.

And as you said the purpose of the site is: learning more about the world through photography. So, sometimes a bad picture, will do. Lol!

Just relax, have fun and keep posting!!!

Best regards,


P.S. I visited your webpage, I only have one complain: Is too slow for my actual internet configuration. Other than that is Great. Do you have other sites where you publish your work?
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Old 11-17-2005, 02:11 PM
ishai ishai is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 272
Default Re: To sayzey: Street Parade 2005 (#3)

Hi Gabriel,
I forgot all about this picture
People got Shocked but there eyes opened just as well.

Thanks for the comment on my home page its all very old and need un update I dont kknow jet what it will be
But ill let you know when its updated

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