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Needs Improvement Roly 2011-08-08 22:00

There are two main problems with this image. One is the fairly uninspiring subject matter, with little that the eye might want to investigate twice. The other is the harsh light that results in bleached colors and lack of depth. The oak is no doubt majestic, but on its own not sufficient to make this an appealing image. A picture taken here at 7 am, with a boat in the foreground, that might be a keeper. Both workshops are more interesting than the original. Whatever sharpening protocol you apply, it is not suitable for fine detail such as the foliage, which appears clearly over-sharpened.

  #1  
Old 08-09-2011, 10:20 AM
maloutim maloutim is offline
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Default To Roly: Harsh critique

Hi Roland and thanks for your truthful critique.
I agree with the bad quality of the sharpening and with the lack of an eye-catcher.
However, I like the peaceful atmosphere of the place, and the diagonal line of the canal which leads the eye to the Great Oak, the main subject of the picture, as well as the reflexions in the water even if they are not exceptional.
I don't agree with the lack of depth ; but there again, I know I still have a lot to learn.
However, I think your critiques in general are too harsh and discouraging :-((
One feels completely worthless after such a critique, and as a teacher, I know I would have never got good results from pupils with learning difficulties, or the others for that matter, if I had used that method with them.
I definitely don't look for praises at all costs, but it's nice to try and find something positive in one's work.
No hard feelings of course :-))
Regards.
Marie-Louise.

Last edited by maloutim; 08-10-2011 at 11:27 PM. Reason: style
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  #2  
Old 08-09-2011, 04:28 PM
Roly Roly is offline
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Hi Marie-Louise,
I am quite surprised and regret of course that my critique left you feeling "completely worthless". The site indicates that you posted 170 images and wrote more than 4000 critiques, so I assumed that there was no need for me to beat around the bush and could say it the way I saw it. Had this been your first or second post, I would have done it otherwise. I agree with you that this might not be the best strategy when working with pupils with learning difficulties, but I was confident that this wasn't the case here. You have numerous positive critiques, and I have little time, so I thought that it would be best for both of us if I would point out the most obvious issues that need in my opinion improvement and that likely nobody else will mention. My critique was targeting just the image and not the photographer behind it. I hope that meanwhile the three positive critiques the image received made up for the bitter taste my harsh critique unintentionally left behind.
Roland
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  #3  
Old 08-09-2011, 07:13 PM
maloutim maloutim is offline
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Default You have got a point.

OK, You have got a point ! Maybe, I was a little too touchy. I know a lot of the critiques I get are written to please me.
However, I must admit after all these years, I still have a kind of inferiority complex where technical quality is concerned, and I haven't changed my PP software yet!...
I tend to concentrate more on the meaning of the picture than on its technical quality.
Anyway, thank you very much for the time you took critiquing my photo and then replying to my reaction. That's the kind of attitude I appreciate on TE, when people can speak their mind while remaining courteous.
Don't worry, I never keep hard feelings, especially when things have been explained clearly.
Au revoir.
Marie-Louise.

Last edited by maloutim; 08-09-2011 at 07:32 PM.
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  #4  
Old 08-09-2011, 07:54 PM
fanni fanni is offline
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Default my opinion

Bonjour Marie Louise!
Hello Roland!

If you don't mind I'll add my two cents to your discussion...
-----------------------------------------------------------------
to Roland
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roly View Post
I assumed that there was no need for me to beat around the bush and could say it the way I saw it.
Roland, there is a saying: "The same thing could have been expressed in a different way"!
so, as a tutor/teacher I agree with Marie Louise. And I sure know what she meant by being discouraged or encouraged.

Quote:
Had this been your first or second post, I would have done it otherwise.
It's not a matter of the number of posts... it's a matter of something else .

Quote:
My critique was targeting just the image and not the photographer behind it.
Too bad... for there is no image without a photographer behind it! Photos say a lot about their authors... for it's people who create photos - thus expressing themselves... their thoughts, emotions..

=================================================

to Marie Louise
Quote:
Originally Posted by maloutim View Post
I still have a kind of inferiority complex where technical quality is concerned, and I haven't changed my PP software yet!...
IMHO, you must not feel inferior because, as you know, TrekEarth is not an exhibition of technical achievements or a contest "whose camera shoots better"!!

as far as I understand the concept of this site, TE is a place which tells us about the world, and people share their views on our world. In this respect I like very much what Ulf (UlfE) says about photos in his intro:
"there are really no bad photos in TrekEarth. I am sure that everyone that posts a photo in TrekEarth feels that they have something to show. I think that there is always something to learn from all photos. "

And if, by chance, while posting photos here we happen to learn not only about the world but also about some technical aspects of photography, - it's a bonus but not the main goal of being a TE member!
(I myself have learnt a lot by just looking at these photos here, not only through helpful critiques which I received!)

================================================== =

MVH,
aka fanni
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  #5  
Old 08-09-2011, 08:19 PM
Keitht Keitht is offline
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Default

The critique by Roly may initially seem harsh, and I don't necessarily agree with all the content of that critique. However, I do believe that this type of critique has the potential to be of far greater value than one which heaps meaningless and unwarranted praise on an image. I'm sure we've all seen plenty of those in our time :-)
If the content was entirely negative I would certainly understand Marie-Louise feeling 'worthless', but Roly includes a number of observations on how he feels the image could be modified (I refuse to say improved because that is such a subjective matter) to have more impact.
I don't think pictures always need to have immediate impact; a restful, tranquil scene also has its time an place. In the UK there is an organisation called the Royal Photographic Society (RPS) and it was once suggested to me that the alternative meaning of RPS was 'Red patch somewhere', because red always draws the eye.
The bottom line is that if you like the image you have produced nothing else really matters. Accept that others may have different opinions and use or ignore those opinions as you wish.
If nothing else, the critique has created a healthy debate without any sulks or name calling. Long may that continue.
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  #6  
Old 08-09-2011, 08:20 PM
Roly Roly is offline
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Marie-Louise, I've learned several important things since posting pictures online. One is that a picture never looks as amazing as the real-life subject it represents, unless maybe the photographer uses extreme post-processing and distorts the subject matter all together. The other is that the average viewer, unlike the photographer, has no emotional attachment or additional knowledge with respect to the image, and hence is able to appreciate much better its visual impact. So, you need to keep in mind that for most of us this picture doesn't have much meaning and is simply just a picture. It catches our eye, we examine it in detail and maybe then read the note, or we move on. As for inferiority complexes and technical quality, all those who have seen a top notch photography gallery realize that most of us on this site aren't all that good and have plenty of room for improvement.
I am glad you didn't mind my critique after all, despite the fact that it was indeed fairly harsh. You should check out Photosig, and compare the helpfulness level (and harshness) of the critiques there.
Roland
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Old 08-09-2011, 08:44 PM
fanni fanni is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roly View Post
You should check out Photosig, and compare the helpfulness level (and harshness) of the critiques there.
LOL Yes... especially this one!
http://www.photosig.com/go/photos/vi...92037&forward=

OK, serious now..
Photosig and TrekEarth were created for different purposes.
or am I mistaken?
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  #8  
Old 08-09-2011, 08:51 PM
fanni fanni is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keitht View Post
The critique by Roly ......... has the potential to be of far greater value than one which heaps meaningless and unwarranted praise on an image.
I agree with Keith on this.
Anyway, I still stick to the opinion that the same thing could have been expressed in a different way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keitht View Post
If the content was entirely negative I would certainly understand Marie-Louise feeling 'worthless', but Roly includes a number of observations on how he feels the image could be modified (I refuse to say improved because that is such a subjective matter) to have more impact.
OK... but not all modifications are for the better...
e.g. some workshop versions suggested by some members are much worse than the originals which they 'modify'! what to do about that?...

Quote:
I don't think pictures always need to have immediate impact; a restful, tranquil scene also has its time an place.
I fully agree with this!
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  #9  
Old 08-09-2011, 08:53 PM
fanni fanni is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roly View Post
all those who have seen a top notch photography gallery realize that most of us on this site aren't all that good and have plenty of room for improvement.
please, give us examples of this kind of photography. I am curious.
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