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  #1  
Old 11-24-2004, 12:00 AM
maciekda maciekda is offline
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Default India by Dariusz Klemens

sometimes I discover gems in photo.net... like today, when I found pictures from India taken by a Polish photographer Dariusz Klemens - click here... simply a beautiful work.
i think he is a professional photographer and he had published some books on India...
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  #2  
Old 11-26-2004, 04:33 PM
clodreno clodreno is offline
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Default Re: India by Dariusz Klemens

i have the book but i don't like it taht much Maciek..
The way it's printed isn't good and the pictures like the cover, aren't all excellent..
He lives not far from you, in London..
Take care.
claude
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  #3  
Old 11-30-2005, 04:02 PM
indiatraveller indiatraveller is offline
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Default Re: India by Dariusz Klemens

I also have the book and I love it. In fact, there must be many people who love it since it was almost impossible to get hold of it just a few months after it was published. Whilst I agree with you that the format of the book is at time insensitive to the images, I think the material is absolutely first rate. Here is a photographer who seems able to find beauty even in the most seemingly unattractive corners of this amazing country. I gather Klemens has been photographing India for over a decade and I think this shows not only in the breadth of the material, but also - and most importantly - in the relationship he establishes with his subjects. People seem to 'bare themselves' to his lens, or perhaps the lens seems to render them bare, I am not sure. What I do know is that the images are haunting; Klemens seems to render every day actions sacred. They are not only highly accomplished photographs at a technical level, they are also supremely honest, if not poetic. By contrast, I must say that I find your own work on India rather dull, bland and utterly uninspiring. Your images seem badly exposed and poorly framed; thus they remain 'flat', and somewhat dead. In short, looking at your photographs, I'd suggest that there is much that someone like you could learn from someone like Dariusz Klemens. It seems to me that you have a long way to go before you could even think about criticising someone of his calibre.
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  #4  
Old 11-30-2005, 05:23 PM
joseelias joseelias is offline
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Default Teach me...

Alex,

If Claude cannot express his PERSONAL opinion about that author, because according to you Claude is not a good photographer, I’m wondering what gives you the right for you to express over Claude’s work!

By YOUR LOGIC, if someone showing his work about the same subject cannot express his opinion, than you should be the first one to be shut up as I see 0 photos in your portfolio!!!

Maybe you should be more tolerant and accept that the fact not all people share the same vision over things is what makes mankind rich.

And I bet that if Dariusz Klemens had since his beginning the kind of blind idolatry you have over him and not one critical view about his work, he would be by now only taking snapshots of his family, cat and dog…

Be tolerant and respectful.

And since you seem to know so much why don’t you show some generosity and teach us all that you seem to know. Explain in specific words how to avoid taking “dull, bland and utterly uninspiring” and “badly exposed and poorly framed” photos… We are all here to learn and that would be a real contribution for us all.
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  #5  
Old 11-30-2005, 07:39 PM
kinginexile kinginexile is offline
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Default Re: Teach me...

well, it looks like Claude's India inspired him enough to register on this very day he replied, and in a cowardly anonymous manner at that, which I believe, nullifies anything he has to say about Claude's photography. This was a personal attack and should be deleted. IMO, of course.

Thanks, Maciej, for the link. I still have to look at it. I must say it's nice to navigate the galleries of these other sites, but rarely do we get shivers from great or cool work, people are too often confusing quantity and quality (guilty!), and we have to look to a few dozens shots before getting the one that makes us say: yes!
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  #6  
Old 12-01-2005, 09:09 AM
jinju jinju is offline
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Default Re: India by Dariusz Klemens

Reveal your real identity COWARD. We all know you set up a new ID so that your real ID here on TE would remain secret. I find people like you worthless. WHERE ARE YOUR PHOTOS COWARD?
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  #7  
Old 07-01-2006, 04:56 AM
Furachan Furachan is offline
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Default Re: India by Dariusz Klemens

Alex,
With all due respect, Claude is a highly revered "teacher" for many of us on TE, a Pro among Pros, and for very good reasons. There is in his work a refusal to PUSH colors beyond credibility, to remain true to the orginal cast of colors, a delicate sense of composition (partly inspired by his profound study of certain painters), and a rare sensitivity to his subjects.
I suspect that he finds Klemens' work a little "vulgar" in its treatment of color and differing form his own.
I personally like both in their different ways.
For you to describe Claude's stirling work as "dull, bland and uninspiring" is beyond harsh...it isn't even fair.
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  #8  
Old 07-01-2006, 01:21 PM
indiatraveller indiatraveller is offline
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Default Re: India by Dariusz Klemens

Jose,
naturally Claude has every right to express his opinion not because he’s a good - or a bad - photographer, but because he’s an individual. However, Claude did not express a reasoned opinion; saying that the pictures “aren’t all excellent” and that he “likes them better on the site” than in the book are broadly negative comments that tell us nothing at all about ‘why’ Claude feels this way about the images - either in the book, or on the site.

I thought this was unhelpful and turned to his pictures to understand where Claude – as a photographer - might be coming from; what he might consider to be an “excellent” photograph. There would be no “logic” in the thought that “someone showing his work about the same subject cannot express his opinion”. My logic is that someone showing his photographic work AND expressing such a vague, unsubstantiated opinion means to let his own work speak of his photographic criteria. Perhaps I was guilty of assuming that Claude’s photographic standards were exemplified by his own work.

I found his pictures to be comprehensively dull and I said so, specifying that his framing and his exposure made his work bland, and therefore IMO uninspiring. I am not sure why you find this so unacceptable; I simply said what I liked, what I did not like, and why. I thought that’s what discussion forums were for. Astonishingly, not a single one of the replies to my comments addresses the points I was hoping to throw into the debate; we still don’t know what Claude – considers an “excellent picture”, or why he prefers one medium over another.

Ultimately, the problem is not that I don’t recognize Claude’s right to express an opinion - the problem is that you believe that only photographers have a right to express a view on the work of other photographers. That’s like claiming that only musicians have the right and the ability to pronounce on music.

While it may be frustrating to think that the person judging your work is not a photographer, in real life, photography is not about what you “have in your portfolio” – an expression used mostly by photographers - but what images you have that grab the imagination of ‘the public’. Sadly perhaps, the public is not made up only of photographers.

In real life, what makes a ‘great photographer’ is not the occasional good shot, or even the multiple - but unrelated - good shots. A great photographer is – amongst many other things - one who can present a coherent body of work that is consistent in both quality and style. That’s why discussing quality and style is – or should be – important on a forum such as this, which aims to foster critical debate about photography.

Perhaps my intervention was unpalatable, but neither “cowardly” nor “anonymous”. As for the accusation of “blind idolatry”, you confuse admiration with adulation, forgetting that a ‘critical view’ need not be a ‘negative’ view. Unfortunately, to a non-photographer, criticisms put forward in the absence of a reasoned critique, inevitably end-up sounding like “sour grapes”.

Jinju,
I hope the above clears up the cowardice matter. It may surprise you to know that there are people like me, who join discussion forums for the pleasure to ….well…discuss! I did not realise that on TE you had to show a portfolio in order to comment. Perhaps someone could clear this point for me?
If on TE a “worthless coward” is someone who does not take pictures, then I am one. But if on TE the general rule that a coward is a spineless, fearful person applies, then you might look closer to home, to all those who area afraid to engage in an open debate.
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  #9  
Old 07-01-2006, 03:06 PM
indiatraveller indiatraveller is offline
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Default Re: India by Dariusz Klemens

Francis, thank you for restoring a much-needed measure of civility to this discussion. In light of your comments, I attempted to re-visit Claude’s portfolio, but it seems to have disappeared. Where else can I see his work? You say he’s a pro, can you direct me to any of his publications please? Unfortunately, it’s been so long since I saw his work, it’s hard to comment from memory. Perhaps that’s just the point – his images were not memorable for me, they did not touch me in any way.

The overall impression I had of his work in India was of a lack of colour, and poor – in the sense of ‘over-self-conscious’ framing, as I recall. In any case, those are technicalities, and as such they don’t really describe the impact – or lack of – any photograph. Colour, composition, framing etc. are necessary categories we use to dissect a photograph; but a photograph is much more than the sum of these things. As Herve acknowledges, a photograph is - or at least can be - a two-way mirror; in an image, the eye that orchestrates the different elements comes through. We may talk about this in terms of ‘missed’ or ‘captured’ opportunities, but these are such on account on whose doing the looking.

Hence, perhaps, the curious phenomenon of those pictures which, despite being ‘perfect’ in every technical respect, leave us totally un-moved and their opposite, the pictures that break every rule in the book– and yet make perfect sense - visually.

I think you are saying that Klemens artificially manipulates his colours; I don’t know about this, (though somewhere on Photo.net he says he doesn’t) but I can think of other photographers whose colours of India – and elsewhere - are equally saturated; foremost amongst them, of course, the Master, Steve McCurry. If their colours are “vulgar”, what would you make of Allan Harvey’s acid greens and scarlet reds present in so many of his pictures of Cuba? And what about Alex Webb’s work? You see my point, I think – how do we decide whose colours are credible?

I’m sorry if I offended your guru. Not being familiar with his reputation on TE, I did not realize that saying that IMO his work was “dull, bland, and uninspiring” would create such offense. But judging from the defensiveness of most responses, I suspect many of you know that such an opinion would only be taken as “harsh and unfair” within a small, virtual community. That’s the point I was trying to make to Jose – in the real world, strong images hold up to scrutiny - regardless of which ‘portfolio’ they come from.
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  #10  
Old 07-01-2006, 04:13 PM
joseelias joseelias is offline
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Default Re: India by Dariusz Klemens

”Astonishingly, not a single one of the replies to my comments addresses the points I was hoping to throw into the debate; we still don’t know what Claude – considers an “excellent picture”, or why he prefers one medium over another.”

Maybe that happened because you made an aggressive “kill entry” and murdered the entire mood for a civilized discussion!!!

Do you think that Claude could not substantiate more his opinion? Do you think he is that dumb?!

If you did not agree with him and felt that he did not give solid arguments why haven’t you asked for him to be more specific? Why the need to automatically bash down his work?


"people like me, who join discussion forums for the pleasure to ….well…discuss!"

In this issue you’ve got something to learn… politeness… And not to rush into conclusions over someone based on a simple opinion…

As I said, if you’ve got doubts over someone’s opinion try to get more information from him to build a good argument. That’s the way to DEBATE ideas. What you did was to discuss with people - in the negative sense of the word.

This thread is dead a buried to me - after all Claude’s not a member here anymore.
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