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  #1  
Old 11-04-2012, 03:34 PM
leo61 leo61 is offline
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Default To delpeoples: holocaust

Hi Lisa!
please have a look at my intro.There you can read when I was born and please don`t make me responsible for things happened before this date. Or do you want to start a discussion about the holocaust,what happened with the aborigines in your country,the Indigenous peoples of America,or what the wikings did about 1000years ago.......?????
By the way,do you accuse italian people for what happened with christian people in Ancient Rome?????
You should read more carefully my note.
I wrote that I`m not happy how inconsequent the moderators moderate TE and how they treat some members.
And I wrote that will not upload photos for a long time,maybe forever.
The rest is your own,WRONG interpretation.
You call me arrogant!
and what is this Lisa:
"It wouldn't surprise me if you start blaming the Moderators for the Holocaust!"
Belive me,I`m sure I know much more about the holocaust and WW2 than you.Because of this I never had the chance to meet my granfathers and one grandmother and many other relatives, too.
My parents are refugees of war from Breslau/Silesia,now Wroclaw in Poland.
And I had no problem visiting this beautiful city a few years ago with my now 84 years old mother and sister and brother.
Lisa ,
not everybody, born after 45 is a Nazi in germany,thanks god it`s only less than 2 %.
Leo
sorry ,no green smile.........

Last edited by leo61; 11-04-2012 at 03:42 PM.
  #2  
Old 11-04-2012, 07:09 PM
delpeoples delpeoples is offline
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Post Leo

Leo

I've looked at your note alright. And your critiques. And your nasty messages. The hate you whip up against Greeks and Americans is appalling. Do you speak to people in real life the same way? The way that you spoke to the moderator Madam Porteplume yesterday, for example? If so, I am glad I only know you cyberly.

And now that I now know a bit about you and your sad family history, such intolerance and rudeness is even more difficult to understand.

Conversely, if you had bothered to ever look at anyone's photos other than your 5 daily "favourites", you would know something about me and would not have made the assumptions that you did. I say this mostly in respect of what you say about the aboriginal people of Australia. Look at this for example and you'll see what I mean: http://www.trekearth.com/gallery/Oce...oto1385191.htm. I

It's no good pointing out the world's genocides and saying "well your country's worse than mine because..."". Each of them are appalling on their own. But what have we learned from them? Judging from the way you treat other races, and people in general - absolutely nothing.

I understand that you have a visceral dislike of the moderators. I neither want to hear not care about the reasons for it. They do an unpaid job daily, and are the constant target of vitriolic and misdirected abuse. Put yourself in their position for once. Would you like to be spoken to the way you speak to them?

You're leaving because you were given the courtesy of being told that your photo did not confirm to the Rules. You know it does not, despite the compelling reason that you posted it. The Moderators have already made an exception for you by warning you that it broke the rules and again make an exception for you by not having taken it down already. And you throw a tantrum and say you're leaving because of it. Does it not sound ridiculous?

Then in parting, you insult the rest of us who are "lesser" photographers than you, the American and the Greeks. Wow, sorry if I can't join the rest of the sycophants in saying what a pity it is you're going. You critique only those 5 people who slavishly admire your photos, and ignore or put down the rest of us.

Frankly I couldn't care if you stay or go.

Sincerely
Lisa

PS: No Green Smiley for me? I don't care mate, get over yourself.
  #3  
Old 11-04-2012, 09:44 PM
emka emka is offline
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Hi ,
I just can't believe my eyes. The most wonderful thing in Trekearth, that I appreciate most, is that the only thing that counts is our passion to learn the world, to travel, the photography. And NOT the colour of skin, religion, nationality, level of education, age and many other. Leo didn't say anything against Greeks or Americans. I am deeply disgusted reading about all this national accusations. But let's leave the politics to politicians and return to photos and TOS. What exactly the rules has Leo violated posting the mushrooms and this last photo about the cover? Hoho, how generous Viviane was to warn him about removing the photo earlier. We all should be greateful. But her proposition to post it as WS to original photo was absurd. it was exceptional case and he asked us for advice. Who would look at the WS, even if it was on the forum?
You Lisa and Rosemary didn't want to post the photos because of the authors' rights. The case was somehow resolved and you came back. But do you know that there are at least three TE members who post most (and maybe all) photos that are stolen. And they are not removed, the photos and these members are still there. I know the names and the photos (and mods know them as well). Is it not the duty of the moderators to act in such a case rather then look for cats and toothbrushes? But it is a bit more difficult then just clicking a flower away.
You Lisa do not care if Leo is here or not (I do), but do you not miss here Giorgio Clementi and Paolo? And many others? Should I name them? Madame P. says that it was a mistake with Akita's photo. It is not the truth. Earlier after Aquila tragedy the photo of Giorgio was removed and later the photo dedicated to our dead Polish friend (active and appreciated TE member). And it was similar case, only the scale was different. The photos with HDR are also forbidden and they are here. What is the difference between the plate with mushrooms and the plate with pierogi? There are many photos with the family members and nothing happens. And it is forbidden too. I can see the point of view of Andrew or Keith and discuss things with them in a friendly way, trying to be objective, but with Madame P. it is not possible at all. She sees only rules (when she wants to see them) and hold the members in utter contempt.

Last edited by emka; 11-04-2012 at 09:59 PM.
  #4  
Old 11-04-2012, 11:40 PM
delpeoples delpeoples is offline
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Post Sycophants

Dear Malgo

I really like you Malgo but here you are wrong. Leo/Andreas has been very insulting to Greeks and Americans, perhaps you chose to be willfully blind by not reading the reactions of Costantine and Brenda.

And Leo's silence on his treatment of the moderators is deafening. He speaks to them and about them like they were crap. And the rest of us lesser beings who call him on his hate-mongering, well we're just stupid, uneducated children to him. The arrogance stuns me.

I'm sorry Malgo but this sycophancy is sickening. I will not join you in your unquestioning worship of a man so full of bile. He says he's really a good guy, but he's very selective as to who he's kind to. Apparently only Burmese not Greeks merit his kindness. What rot.
  #5  
Old 11-05-2012, 03:04 AM
macondo macondo is offline
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Default A few points...

Quote:
Originally Posted by emka View Post
Hi ,
Leo didn't say anything against Greeks or Americans.
Hi Malgo.
I think you are mistaken here - Leo's comments about American companies and Germany propping up Greece were things that didn't need to be said, and do reflect an intemperate state of mind. They were certain to offend somebody.

Quote:
What exactly the rules has Leo violated posting the mushrooms and this last photo about the cover? Hoho, how generous Viviane was to warn him about removing the photo earlier. We all should be greateful. But her proposition to post it as WS to original photo was absurd. it was exceptional case and he asked us for advice. Who would look at the WS, even if it was on the forum?
There is no need for sarcasm. The mushroom photo was simply a staged close-up of 'common objects', as Leo stated in his note:

"and to the moderators!!!!!
Of course this is a staged photo.....
Please let me know another way to show my today`s harvest......"


His tone is hardly serious; anyone could be forgiven for thinking he was being deliberately provocative in his mockery. As it happens, there were two other staged photos of vegetables or household objects removed on the same day or the next day. They are not the sorts of photos which are appropriate for TE; surely you can see that! If you are truly a lover of TE's good 'travel' photos, you should prefer to see such a photo on Trek Lens, I think.

As for the photo of the book cover, it was discussed by the moderators and we all agreed to leave it for a few days, but Leo was informed in pleasant tones that it would be removed eventually for infringing the TOS. The suggestion to make it a WS and start a forum thread was sensible, and not deserving of your derision. Several people responded to Leo's call for advice, but as far as I can see, he did not thank any of them, or thank the moderators for allowing his shot, which he knew was against the TOS, to remain in the gallery. His only response has been an outrageous reply to Viviane - "Thank you so much for writing in a language I don`t understand.......this is exactly the ignorance of the moderators mentioned in the latest forum thread." - a lot of bitterness and sheer malice directed at moderators and those who give undeserved points, and a grand statement of departure, causing several members to comment upon his bitterness.

Quote:
But do you know that there are at least three TE members who post most (and maybe all) photos that are stolen. And they are not removed, the photos and these members are still there. I know the names and the photos (and mods know them as well).
I don't know who you are referring to, and no such members have been discussed recently by the moderators. I spent a lot of time a few months ago trying to establish that several new members from two countries were posting stolen photos for political purposes, and as a result they were all banned. If you know of any members who are posting stolen photos, please let me know as soon as possible their user names and the photos in question. I promise to act quickly if theft can be established.

Quote:
You Lisa do not care if Leo is here or not (I do), but do you not miss here Giorgio Clementi and Paolo? And many others? Should I name them? Madame P. says that it was a mistake with Akita's photo. It is not the truth. Earlier after Aquila tragedy the photo of Giorgio was removed and later the photo dedicated to our dead Polish friend (active and appreciated TE member). And it was similar case, only the scale was different.
I think you must allow for errors of judgment being made, even those with unfortunate and regrettable results. Viviane admitted to this in the case of Akita, and should be believed. Sometimes, sadly, mistakes can't be undone because it is too late. In general, there is no reason why memorial or commemorative photos should not conform to the TOS, as some members recognised when they uploaded 10th anniversary shots.


Quote:
The photos with HDR are also forbidden and they are here.
Actually, photos with HDR must not look different from normal photos, as the new item in the TOS states; I suggest you read it. They are removed if they are extreme, the same as over-processed shots. HDR should be a tool, not a genre. Of course, the results can be a matter of opinion, and there will always be members who disagree with decisions made. However, these are usually discussed by moderators and not removed unless there is a consensus. There will never be complete agreement about over-processing, but it's the moderators' discretion or judgment which members accepted when they signed up. To think we exercise that discretion without careful and serious thought is quite wrong.

Quote:
There are many photos with the family members and nothing happens. And it is forbidden too.
Sometimes a member, usually a new one who has not read the TOS, will openly state, in his or her ignorance, 'this is a shot of my wife on the beach' or some such, but very often it is not obvious or cannot be proved that a person in the shot is a family member or friend. If you know for certain that a shot contains a family member or friend, please contact the moderators to inform them. All shots where there is a suspicion that a relative or friend is included are presented to the moderators for discussion; occasionally we just have to give the benefit of the doubt, unfortunately.

Finally, I also hate to see people leaving, whatever the reason. And that includes Leo, to whom I wrote quite a few critiques. I don't think his response this time was justified in any way. It's a needless departure, and I believe most members who knew him would agree with that.

You were dead right in your analysis of the falling uploads; it is a problem which needs urgent attention. It's a shame that sensible discussion of what may be done is often side-tracked into the usual mod-bashing exercise. I've also done some research into the membership, and I intend to start a GF thread when I have time and also have my thoughts in order.

Naturally, I hope to continue 'friendly' discussions with you, but I think you've made some statements here which are wrong or misleading.

Regards,
Andrew

Last edited by macondo; 11-05-2012 at 03:30 AM.
  #6  
Old 11-05-2012, 08:31 AM
emka emka is offline
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Probably this thread will be closed as not going in good direction, so I write short. I am in awkward position as I like Lisa very much. It would be very stupid thing if because of Leo's mushrooms we wouldn't remain friends. I am not sycophant of Leo (new word for me, English is not my language). I rarely comment his photos and he almost doesn't comment mine. I have read his 300 last critiques and I didn't found any trace of hate-mongering or racism, or nasty words. Quite contrary, all his critiques were honest and friendly. With his photos he inspired me like noone on TE and thanks to him I went to Burma and I visited the places I wouldn't see otherwise. It was one of my best trips and I am very grateful. I hoped to see the new photos from the trip he plans and I am sad I will not see them. Isn't it the mission of TE?
I really cannot understand all this hatred against him because of Americans and Greeks. I will give some examples and I hope that noone will be offended. If I wrote somewhere that Russians killed our president and 95 other innocent people (it is something that many people in Poland believe) does it mean I hate Russian people, would Serghei feel offended? My son is computer scientist and hate Microsoft. I suppose he has some reasons for it. He doesn't use any product of Microsoft and if I have problems with IE or Word he never helps me. It is an American big firm. Does it mean he has something against Americans? In Poland there are a lot of people that do not approve America's policy. Also, there is a lot of discussion about the help for Greece (and maybe other countries in future, like Portugal or Italy). And Poland has got a lot of money from EU. I can imagine in Germany there are more discussions about it and a lot of people do not like it. Everytime there is something with Greece, the currency rate changes and then I must pay more for my trips. But am I racist that hate Greeks? I feel pity for the people wherever they are. I read what Brenda and Georgios wrote but there are other Americans and Greeks on TE and they didn't reacted in such an exaggerated manner. Beside, Leo wrote it not in his note but only in 'private" communication with Brenda. Do you approve everything that your govenment does?

I admit Leo's words for mods were harsh. But a lot of people think that it is because of moderating that TE lost many members. (I am already on the first site of the most popular members. I don't think I am photographer, and I do not regard myself as someone chasing for points, I am just active. But I go quickly up because so many good photographers left or do not post). And it is because of the inconsequences. (Yes, we are often inconsequent too). The same thing is sometimes forbidden, and sometimes not.

I will reply to Andrew about friends, stolen photos and other things (with proofs) in Forum.
And I will practise this new word, if someone here is sycophant,then you are, Lisa. You are sycophant of Madame P.

Last edited by emka; 11-05-2012 at 08:39 AM.
  #7  
Old 11-05-2012, 08:46 AM
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Porteplume Porteplume is offline
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It's really enough, Emka.

It is not about Leo. It is not about TE slowing down. After this w-e I know one thing for sure, you have a personal matter with me. Why discuss your hate towards me on Forums? Why searching every way to point me out as the only reason of everything that go wrong on TE?

Yes, it's really enough, Emka, and please stop using forums for this witch-hunt. I can tell you over and over that I only do what is asking to me to do as moderator, you have decided I'm bad and wrong so it won't be otherwise whatever I would say...

Viviane
  #8  
Old 11-05-2012, 09:18 AM
macondo macondo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emka View Post
I will reply to Andrew about friends, stolen photos and other things (with proofs) in Forum.
And I will practise this new word, if someone here is sycophant,then you are, Lisa. You are sycophant of Madame P.
Malgo, I believe this would be the wrong thing to do. It is not fair to nominate people in this way, and will likely just stir up more unpleasantness. You can let us know the names of the members who are stealing photos or uploading shots of relatives or friends, and we will act on it. If you were to start such a thread in the General Forum I would question if you are doing it with the best intentions. Other members are satisfied with writing to us to report TOS infringements and photo theft.

I think you can get a strong idea of Lisa's outrage at what has been happening - this strong response of hers is not what you would have expected. It does not come from any form of sycophancy, but from an open mind that can see some members only too keen to hijack forum threads and discussions to attack moderators.

In Leo's case, his last two uploads before his farewell shot were both conscious or deliberate infringements of the TOS. A member, no matter how well liked he or she is, can't act as if above the rules. Nor can a moderator. Reasonable action was taken; the decision we made was hoped to help him, and not out of any negative feelings at all. It is hard to see how any member can be critical of what was decided; in fact, some might think he received favourable treatment for his book cover photo. It is indeed sad to see him leave as I admired his shots of Burma and wrote some critiques of them over the years.

I think you should have realised by now that a lot of members just want to get on with photo uploading, critique writing and friendly social relations. And no doubt many of them would like to see some changes and improvements in the Trek sites.

Regards,
Andrew
  #9  
Old 11-05-2012, 09:39 AM
emka emka is offline
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"Other members are satisfied with writing to us to report TOS infringements and photo theft."

OK, So where I should write to you? The list is long.
Malgo
  #10  
Old 11-05-2012, 10:08 AM
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Porteplume Porteplume is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emka View Post
OK, So where I should write to you? The list is long.
Malgo
There is a "Report Problem" under each photo.
Moderators AND administrators receive all these messages.
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